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| Saturday, April 04, 2009 | Imran Khan condemns Swat flogging incident
By Muhammad Junaid | 4553 Views |  | News, Press Release, Pakistan, NWFP |  | | PRESS RELEASE Mr Imran Khan has condemned the Swat flogging incident in very clear terms. In a telephone talk with the Secretary General of the party Dr Arif Alvi he said that this brutal incident has nothing to do with Islam or Shariah. He appreciated the fact that Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry has taken suo moto notice of the incident and thorough investigation must be done and strong action taken against all those who are found responsible. Mr Imran Khan appreciated that major elements from among the people of Swat, including the Taliban have also condemned the incident. He told Dr Alvi that it is unfortunate that some people draw conclusions regarding Islam from such gory and brutal incidents. He said millions were brutalized in Afghanistan and Iraq by coalition forces from democratic countries under the false pretext of safe guarding human liberty and freedom. But not once did people around the world say that democracy is a bad institution because we know that it was the people, and not the system of democracy which was to blame. Similarly the Swat incident has no link to Islam or Sharia but it is a brutal violent act carried out by some individuals against a helpless woman and which was perpetrated in the lawless situation of Swat a couple of months ago. Mr Imran Khan said that it is all the more important that the deal between the people of Swat and the government should be finalized to bring law and order back to people of Swat. He warned that if such an incident is allowed to sabotage and derail the peace process, we would be playing in the hands of international conspirators who cannot accept Pakistan struggling back to normal, after the great people’s victory in the struggle for the Restoration of the Judiciary.
Signed Dr Arif Alvi Secretary General Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf |
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| Comments |  By i.a.sara @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 8:31 AM | (iasara) |
I think it is a balanced statement without;
" Mr Imran Khan appreciated that major elements from among the people of Swat, including the Taliban have also condemned the incident.
Taliban has not condemned the incident and and infact claimed the responsiblity. Just to remind everybody we have nothing to do with Taliban.We should be very clear on that.
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| By Ali @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:09 AM | (masyed) |
It was not act of individuals - it wa act of an organization- It wa done as by Talibaaan - according to their rule of law-
Haji Muslim Khan clearly said that they wanted to sangsar the women- but the relaxed it for 34 flogging ( strangely -Haji Muslim khan thinks he ha right to change Had given by Allah )-
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| By @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:21 AM | () |
whole condemnation is spolied by this senetnce again an effort to please Taliban
"Mr Imran Khan appreciated that major elements from among the people of Swat, including the Taliban have also condemned the incident"
no taliban has condemned that they have taken responsibility openly
Sorry Doc. too little too late as usual |
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| By Ali @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:53 AM | (masyed) |
It was punsihemnt verdict given by Tahreek e Talibaan -( NOT by some individuals -) if they are NOT orgainzed enough to handle it than they shouldnot claim to get their regime directly or indirectly ( via their father in law- Sufi Muhammad)
Cannot understand why PTI keeps on trying to find and bring a softer face of Talibaan from somewhere and glorify / appreciates them somehow
we as PTI condemn Talibaan as Youaf Raza Gillani condemns done attacks
if it was an army action we ( rightly) ATTACK them boldly/ vocaly in our speeches
But two wrongs cannot make one right
Yes offcourse peace agreemnt shouldnot be derailed at any cost |
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| By Tahir @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:09 PM | (Tahir Bajwa) |
This reminded me Allama "Tu Voh Muslim Hay, Jisea Dekh Ke Sharmae Yahood".
Guys first decide whether you are Muslim or not? If you are not Muslim, then it is your mission to work against Islam and participate in all anti Islamic campaign. But, if you think, you are Muslim, then please all of first go and study Islam throughly and then you will be to understand and comment on such things.
Who so ever has done it, they have done the right thing. There cannot be anything better than that. All of first they purify the couple through punishment and then had them married and given the full protection to that girl.
Once a lady comitted sextual adulty and Prophet peace be upon Him, gave the verdit of ston to death. She was punished and people of Madinah stoned at her until she died. Right after that a campainion of Prophet passed some indecent comment about that lady, the Prophet told him she is now pure as she has got her punishment in this world and you should not use such word for her.
In another case, Kalif Umar punished a person for his adulty, and he died, the the Kalif kissed his face and said now you are in Paradise.
The good Muslims, always wish to take its crimes/mistakes punishments in this world rather than taking to the life here after, as it will be extremely unbearable.
So, what Taleban or anyone else has done, it is absolutely right thing. Who so ever oppose this act, they are in fact opposing the Allah and His Prophet. Such people remain no more Muslim. That is very clear and agreed by all Islamic Scholers, that if anyone refuse to believe a single word of Quran, he is no more Muslim.
Dear PTIs brothers, if we are Muslims, we should not care anyone but only Allah and His Prophet.
Believe me, this PPP, PML-N, CJ Ch. Iftikhar, and the Militry top brass, are really anti Islamic people. They all are one team and they were just playing with the nation. According to the mission, Iftikhar was first made hero and now they will be using him for their anti Islamic purposes and we will sit and watch.
In order to meet anti Islamic commitment, Iftikhar Ch has immediate taken suo moto notice and he became blind and deaf in stable selling events in Punjab. How the PML-Q mandate has been subbotage and how PML-N has doen horse trading there. So, this basterd is closing his eyes, why? Do you know why Zardari imposed Governor rule in Punjab after Shahban disqualification, to help Shahbaz, that no one else could get elected from Punjab assembly.
Should PTI wish to follow the right path being a political party of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, they need to develop their plan in line with the ideology of this country and to follow through. There should not be one mane show in the party. It seems here we have bunch of immature munday khunday who have no knowledge, no sence and they don't know what are they talking about so the IK. Without having a proper knowledge of the issues we keep giving statements. It will just ruin everything. Actually, these CIA agents Iftikhar Ch, Nawaz, Zardari and the bloody Kiyani wants to subbotage the peace deal and looking for the justifications to act to suspend the Shareya from there.
Remember friends, the purpose of our creation is worship to Allah. What is workship. Worship mean living this life well according to Allah's wish as the Prophet Peace Be Upon Him has demonstrated. If we fail to do so, we will fail in the purpose of our creation. The one who fail in its purpose is the loser and its end will be in hell where in the punishments are undescribale. We need to read Quaran and Hadeeth and the Life of the Prophet and the Lives of the Kalifs to understand what is Islam and what are we suppose to do. Please don't spoil your lives with the nonsence acts.
Allah may lead all of us to the right direction. And one thing, Allah guides only those who wishes His guidance.
Allah Hafiz |
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| By Tahir @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:13 PM | (Tahir Bajwa) |
Mr. Alvi, I have a question from you, Have you read Quran. Have you read the life of Prophet.
I gave you here two examples, one from the life of Prophet PBUH and the other one from the second Kalif the Umar RAT.
Man, first go and study Islam, then talk and then give your comments in the light of the Quran and Hadeeth.
With you above statement, you are misguiding the Muslims and you will be help responsible for that. |
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| By i.a.sara @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:28 PM | (iasara) |
@Tahir
The only ISI or any other agency agent I can see here is you. Let me make sure you understand that PTI is not a right wing fascist party which people like you want it to be. Most of us like it to be a centrist party with some people who are left or right leaning.
Please do not waste your or our time here teaching us Islam. Go and find other places like JI website or other places of hate.
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| By Ali @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:53 PM | (masyed) |
Good information on how Quran & hadith has allowed to prosecute & prove such action first - ( irrespective of host and his political affiliation)
A must see and highly recomended religious programme for all
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2859
or
http://awaz.tv/playvideo.asp?pageId=3015
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| By Zarian @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 3:54 PM | (zwaheed) |
I think its time we should stop this non-sense talk that this is a conspiracy against us by some elements who are always busy to destablize Pakistan. It is clear who Taliban are. They are a group of people who are il-literate and have rudimentry understanding of Islam at best.
PTI and the whole Nation should be very clear. I dont like mixed signals coming from Imran Khan. I dont know why he is always defending them. Its beyond my comprehension and if PTI does not change its stance on this then I think they are not in touch with the pulse of the nation. End result will be that people will turn away from PTI. I am not very sure about my loyalty for PTI today and I always considered Imran Khan as my ideal but he has to take clear sides. He can't continue in this Fashion.
Its time that we take a very strong stand against these so called Taliban who are always forcing themselves on the helpless and women.
I dont know, I guess I am very angry and I think its time that we rise up as a Nation against these Jahils. |
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| By Junaid @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:28 PM | (m_junaid) |
@ Tahir
Mind your language. You better stop labeling others as anti-Islamists or misguiding muslims.
FYI, PTI flag represents people of both rightist and leftist ideologies. If you cannot tolerate other people's opinions then this is not the right place for you.
Admin |
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| By Dashing10 @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:34 PM | (Dashing10) |
PTI is party of educated people with open mind and who believe in true sense of Islam.....as rightly condemned by IK; we should never support such acts
Talibans and bhata khor are the same-munafiq |
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| By Liaqat Ali @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 8:45 PM | (LIAQAT ALI) |
Imran Khan has issued a statement via his sec gen .
PTI members need his leadership on this grave situation . A press conference in his usual style was nessesary . No wonder he is being accused of being pro Taliban .... It is a sad day for his wellwishers . |
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| By Nikhat @
Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:06 PM | (Nikhat) |
Its too late to penn down my comments I guess but I was in sheer shock and state of confusion...... Too much information and too many doubts...
In the begining I felt till these savages shown in video Whipping poor girl if not caught and thrashed in public in the same way I would be restless. But as the rationality slowly took over rage I realised something is fishy here.
I believe Islam is not a religion but a doctrine of living. All 'Hudood' mentioned in Quran and sunnah are meant for a better society not to produce a reactionary society!!!
I am not a Islamic scholar and many Ulma-e-Din already spoke their reservation on the nature of this act.
Yesterday when I watched Dr. Shahid Masood show 'Meiray Mutabiq' I realised how intelligently anti-Islam forces are playing their cards, using technology/electronic media to destablise Pakistan to its roots.......
Just when the nation seemed to be uniting and announced their strength on 'Restoration of Judiciary' they planted a great 'fitna' within us.
They seem to be winning now.
Their strategy to divide this nation in 'Progressive, liberals, leftists' and ' Fundamentalists, Extremists/right wing forces' seems to be in full swing.
Everyone is debating , questioning even raising fingers at Pakistan's creation.
It is so sad!!!!!!How easy it is for west to hit our unity, integrity and our 'DIN'.
Our enemies know that Provincialism, ethnicity, linguist issues and most favourite among all is religion are the top burning issues which can ignite a fire. And any time errode our newly built, still developing chains of identity and nationality.
Its so unfortunate that some of our 'enlightened moderates' thinks that Pakistan was meant to be secular state.
They bring forward Quaid-e-Azam's attire, his way of style, few of his speeches and by doing so completely forgets that Pakistan's creation was not done single handedly by Quaid-e-Azam.......
Struggle of Muslims started since 1857. Earlier it was together with Hindus for Brits to 'quit India' then when Muslim League was formed it was all for separate state for MUslims where the rule of law would be according to Islam.
I wish people would read Iqbal as Iqbal's philosophy was behind Pakistan and inspired Jinnah to struggle for it.
I really feel it wierd that our 'Enlightened Moderates' start to buy every crap, every lie brought forward from USA( great liers).
I am so fed up with US lies that I question everything coming from abroad or through their funded NGO's.
From 9/11 incident to Weapons of Mass destruction...from Usama Bin Laden hidden whereabouts till creation of Beitullah mehsood USA is culprit of severe lies and brutal crimes against humanity.
Neither we believe that 9/11 was by Alqaida, nor we believe that any such henious crime happened actually.
PPP and its cheap allies, funded NGO's and our so called Progressive 1% elite class need to serve their masters to keep the dollars floating in and for their own selfish intersts.
This incident was accepted as a fact by all mentioned above and they want to cash on this bogus drama. But God delays are not God denials!!!!!!
Times have changed.
We believe in our leader. Because he is the truthful Leader of people of Pakistan...
Its hard to fool him.
Whatever is IK's stance on any sensitive issue like presence of Taliban, Tehreek-e-nifAZ-E-Adl, presence of Beitullah Mehsood, dialogue with Taliban, war on terror or this deplorable pathetic act(if its real) we will follow him, support him and believe him......
Because Imran Khan is man of his words....
We believe on some one whose track record is full of
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| By Hafsa @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 1:05 AM | (hafsa) |
@ Nikhat...................continuining without your permission! :)
............We believe on some one whose track record is full of..........intelligence, loyalty, bravery and successes.
He is a man with BRAINS!
@ i.a.sara ............girl u need to think again.................either we USE TALIBAN as our tool of winning this battle against Islam................or anti-Islamic forces, in the name of Islam, can use Taliban against Islam for any hideous act...........and of course our people will fall for the trap. whose defending them??? and then our people think they are great politicians where they dont even know the ABC of politics.
@ Change............if u had any faith in your leader ( is it Imran Khan?) well if u had any faith in MY leader (IMRAN KHAN), you wouldn't question his reasons but rather find out those reasons, you would also find out and help PTI members to know that indeed TALIBANS have condemned it.......as per latest in DAWN newspaper.
i dont like.........'look busy do nothing' types anyway! last thing we need is base less criticism!
@ Tahir............you have a very imbalanced approach in studying Islam. You need a new Teacher!
@ Liaquat Ali.............why do you think its a grave situation??? i mean, everyday hundreds of women are beaten in Pakistan, America, England etc etc....................what makes this case a unique one............OH, TALIBAN?
Seems like its not the BEATING but the BEATERS who are the problem!
If you all are really worried for the state of women in this country, plz stand for women who are equally beaten in the rest of Pakistan (or in other parts of the world).
Let's start from our President, involved in international harassement, our Balochistan governer for harassing our leading female anchor, live on ARY.
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| By Saleem @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 1:11 AM | (Creative) |
Nobody is questioning Imran Khan's sincerity and honesty- He is a great leader everybody is admitting it -
-we are all Muslims and we ( atleat I) strongly believe in shariat baed punsihment - Hadood Allah - To me PTI is not right, left or centre party - it is party whoch believe in Islam shariat and insaf.
Issue here is of taking a clear position on whatever is fair- If Talibaan slaughter heads and hang them on trees - Can we remain silent - Issue is not only response on fogging firl also, it may be ignored - but on slaughtering brutalities how much PTI reacted towards
talibaan.( other than rarely ssuing Yusuf Gillani type condemnation statemnt only- dont forget how we furiously ATTACK army actions -)
As a democratic party it i our responsibility and right to raise our tiny voices also-
Imran is great n true leader but he is not prophet who cannot maKe mistakes or do not need Re-thinking or Re-phrasing his policies and statment. we are his team thats why our duty i to send him pulse of masses in feedback else it will be unfortunate for a party-
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| By Zarian @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 1:15 AM | (zwaheed) |
@Nikhat
Why do you think that there is always a conspiracy? Why can't we accept that this is our own problem? We have to put our own house in order first. A true Patriot is a person who is willing to accept the problems in his country and then do something about them.
We can't fix this problem until we accept that this is our own problem. There is no conspiracy going on. Its always the circumstances that dictate the actions and strategies. Right now enemies of pakistan are having a field day here and they use talibans to get their dirty work down. So if we can neutralize this extremist group then they will not have any means to destablize Pakistan.
Economic development and crackdown on the training facilities of these extremists is the way to go.
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| By Adeel @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 1:28 AM | (madeel) |
IK objective is that Swat deal shouldn't be derailed.
I also think it should not be derailed. I believe that once peace maintained undisturbed, within ten years people of Swat will marginalize Taliban themselves.
One thing is clear that as long as NATO is in the Afghanistan, the situation can only get worse. In this war time, success will be not letting the situation increasingly worse.
This is also critical for the US. If they remain in the Afghanistan for three years, its economy will suffer from irreversible damages. You can not turn a country just by printing dollars for long. And it will have psychological consequences too.
One can observe a positive thing from this. That the Taliban's Islam can not take over Pakistan. Islam or any other ideology always ruled by wining the battle of hearts and mind which Taliban has already lost.
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| By Saleem @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 2:02 AM | (Creative) |
Talibaan got strenghted ( and alo getting more) over the period of time - when there was NO STRONG POLITICAL voice against them- so they were not cornered as opposition partie were busy doing point scoring against govt - Now as Talibaan got enough stronger they took over the regime in swat ( through their father in law) which will further help them to organize ( though they will show bit milder behaviour apparently as a tactic but philisophy will remains same - Force -- those who disagree wether idealogically - sectarianly on in anyway, media will be threatened NOT to show true picture else ... )
Now this go back n relax policy on watching them (Talibaan) doing all this till the time NATO is in afganhistan - alone willl NOT work ( in my opinion ) - we had to isolate them from begining as this process take time - Swat ppl been made slave under gun -it will be more or less another freedom
struggle for them to throw them away - and it gets difficult in lesser literacy rate area when rulers use religion as shield- Time for action will not only be toorrow it is NOW ( already late)- Only balancing our criticism equally towards both Army and Talibaan can take us out else talibaan will enjoy almost No resistant- it is important to beat them morally which is difficult when imp voices in country almost remain silent against them ( only govt speak which mases hate for other reasons) - opposition parties also owe responsibility and revising strategy |
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| By uetian @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 3:13 AM | (uetian) |
Dear PTI members.
I think we are discussing a issue about which we are not clear so far. I suggest to read Javid Chaudry (Express News) column, dated 05-04-06.
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| By Dr. Khurrum @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 3:23 AM | (ksy) |
well there are very Important points to consider Imran Bhai ,
1. A 17 yr old women was flogged for Alleged adultry , then why not the male accomplice was lashed as well . Does Islam only punishes poor and weakling women .????????????.
2. If this was a forged video , still there are report of a Pir who formed lashker against taliban and he was sorrounded by them and killed while the Army did not come to his rescue , as published in Hearld Magazine of march 2009 . The ISPR denied , and said that they went to wrong address . while the gun Battle went on for 2 days . This mean that taliban have support of Army . The dead body of the Pir was exhumed from grave and then put on Exhibition on a Green chowk of Swat !!!!!!!!!!.
3. As a lover of histroy I have read that Dr . Najjeb Preseident of Afganisatn in 1990,s was exhumed by taliban and hanged to Rot in Kabul . At that time Gen hameed gul was controlling Taliban while he was boss of ISI .
4. Many cases of Such Brutality are available during rule of taliban in Afghanistan . Offcourse as we dont need army to protect the border with afgahnistan because of these taliban . But the Brutality is something to think on and decided a better strategy instead of accepting such Brutal Animas as heroes . when they are killing people in NWFP and Brutalising them .
5. We In PTI should form a think tank and think of some strategy . I am reading the above comments and worried about the clueless people are to what PTI should do .
6. Look at Gen Zia father of Ijaz-ul-haq , had such Rigid and Fixed Islamic beliefs that he had imprisioned and ordered stoneing to death of a Blind Women who was Gang raped by men who was left as free men by gen Zia government . That Women was freed and pardoned when the Chairaman of American Senate Intervened and asked favour from Zia to leave her. this can be seen in the Movie based on true story " Charlie Wilsons war " with Tom hanks in lead role and by reading history .
7. Double talk is Dangerous as Leaders cannot be Double talkers . they have to Crystal Clear like Quaid - i- Azam .
8. Although Taliban have denied thier Involvement and Video is Fake maybe but the Real Answers will come with time .
9 . one Cannot Deny the fact these Mujahideen/ Talibans / lashkers / Jaishes , all could not created without the Blessing of ISI.
10 . As in pakistan all political parties and Religious are even created by interfernce of ISI and Army like JI , Awami muslim League , PPP ( Sherpoa) , JUI , MQM , PML-Q, PML-N . Sipah -Sahaba party of Punjab .
11. Only ANP , PPPP ( Z Bhutto ) and PTI are the ones that can represent the people as they are close to people heart .
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| By asif238 @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 4:42 AM | (asif238) |
@Liaqat Ali
Its the gift of our rulers extraordinary leadership skills & visionary thinking for bringing an internal crisis of Afghanistan (the battle between monarchy, communism & tribalism) into Pakistan in just three decades.
Thank you President Gen Zia ul Haq, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, President Gen Pervaiz Mussharraf & President Asif Ali Zardari.
Have you guys asked anywhere to these crook rulers of Pakistan that why they did it?
Open your eyes & ask the govt to act against these kinna brutalities, raise your voice for action against the while collar crime also which led a horrible killing of around 60 people in the container.
Raise your voice & unite yourself to force the rulers for an action against these desi & wilayati criminals.
It is happening due to our ciminal silence, we are not paying tax to rulers for reporting & condemning we need security from desi & wilayati criminals. For reporting we are paying to cable operators & PTV lisence fee. |
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| By bilal @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 6:17 AM | (bilalnuman) |
WELL BALANCED PRESS RELEASE
please must read:
http://jang.com.pk/jang/apr2009-daily/05-04-2009/col3.htm
http://jang.com.pk/jang/apr2009-daily/05-04-2009/col5.htm |
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| By Maria_aussie @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 6:53 AM | (Maria_aussie) |
I don't know whats wrong with PTI leadership, everyday they issue a statement that indirectly supports Taliban mind set. Why Imran has to please these bigots. The other day he woe to support Jamia Hafsa and Lal masjid terrorists who defamed Islam to a great deal. Now he is pleasing Taliban by saying " Mr Imran Khan appreciated that major elements from among the people of Swat, including the Taliban have also condemned the incident." Infact Taliban has said that The girl should has been stoned-to-death....but oh we made a mistake we just flogged her...lol.
I expected a courageous leader in form of Imran.......... |
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| By asif238 @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:20 AM | (asif238) |
@Maria_aussie
Have you questioned the rulers who provided Pakistans territory to fight two Afghanistan internal wars (first against communists & then against taliban)?
It just took three decades to bring Afghanistans crisis(a clash between monarchy, communism & tribalism) due to the extraordinary leadership skills & far-sighted vision of our great rulers starting from President gen Zia ul Haq to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto to President Gen Pervaiz Musharraf to President Asif Ali Zardari.
Have you questioned them that why they did it?
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| By @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:31 AM | () |
@
maria_aussie
we should send our concerns to higher leadership and as a first step to Dr.Arif Alvi (Secretary General), i have talked with some other PTI fellows and i propose that every one who does not agree or have some concerns about PTI`s stance regarding Taliban write e mail to Mr.Arif Alvi with full details
Name, Location, time since affiliation with PTI ( they can also confirm that from database)
as a Party member it is our right to send our concerns about those policies with which we do not agree. e mail address of Dr.Alvi is:
[email protected]
I think it is better approach than arguing with each other on this forum |
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| By asif238 @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:37 AM | (asif238) |
I would appreciate if you provide the emails of those who provided our territory to for Afghanistans internal wars being an office bearer of Pakistan Tahreek-e-Insaf?
Why no one condemns the taliban-producers? Are they holy cows?
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| By Haris @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:09 AM | (InsaafPasand) |
I agree with the majority - Islamic punishments should not be implemented. Anyone who implements Islamic laws by following Quran should be labled as having no knowledge of Islam.
Tahir, you should not teach Islam. Don't you know we only needed 'Islam' as an excuse to create Pakistan? In reality, majority of Pakistanis are against Islamic punishments.
When this whole 'protest' started, I was unclear about the reason. I didn't know if the people who are upset are upset due to the fact that Islamic punishment was carried out, or that they believe it should have been carried out in a room somewhere. Now after reading this chain, I have my answer. People are just upset because Islamic punishment was carried out.
Read my next post about Imran Khan. |
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| By i.a.sara @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:16 AM | (iasara) |
@Haris
Please don't try to mix things and confuse people. All of us muslims and don't need a stamp of approval from you or anybody else. BUT we also believe that Taliban are violent people who are beating and killing other muslims in Pak right now.
We don't support American intervention in Pak but also are not naive to think that Taliban's version of Islam should be inforced in Pakistan. They are doing suicide bomobings almost daily now and you and some other people are here to make excuses for them.
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| By asif238 @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:25 AM | (asif238) |
@i.a.sara
who are taliban-producers? why are you silent abt them? are you taliban-producers sympathizers?
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| By Haris @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:26 AM | (InsaafPasand) |
Folks,
I think I know why IK is not able to be as vocal as many people here are complaining about - I have a theory, and I'm pretty sure I am right, as I have known Imran since a few decades now. And - Apologies to anyone who does not agree - no offence intended. Here is what I think:
I think Imran Khan lacks a quality, and that is: he cannot tell a lie in the same manner as the rest of the politicians. In this case, I suspect here is his dilema: Whether we agree or not, here are the facts:
1. Fact: Quran has the punishment of flogging
2. Fact: Taliban carried out flogging
Now, my theory is:
A. Theory: Imran Khan agrees that Islam is the correct religion
B. Thoery: Imran Khan knows that flogging is a punishment in Quran
Conclusion (Theory): I think he just cannot say 1 and 2 are 100% wrong thing to do, because it would mean he is saying theory A & B are wrong. To his logical mind, it must look like contradiction. and I know Imran is an upright person.
Lieing to his own soul is just not in his character, which is why I love him, and always wish him success. |
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| By i.a.sara @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:38 AM | (iasara) |
@asif238
Brother, first of all nobody should be calling names to others. Respecting others is the only way to convery your thought to them nicely.
Now I think most of us do understand Pak leaders helped creating this menace with involvement from outside of Pakistan. We condemn it and does not want it to happen again. You can learn from past but you can't change it.
Having said that the real issue now is how to solve it. You need to understand you can not solve it by inforcing Taliban's version of Islam. My motto is to live and let others live which Taliban mentality of people don't understand. For them the only way is my way or the highway.
Now for me the best way is for PTI to distance itself clearly from Taliban, condemn their acts and at the same time condemn foreign intervention which is not the only but one of the reasons of this phenomenon. It may be difficult stance to do but I think we could do it.
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| By i.a.sara @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:48 AM | (iasara) |
@Haris
Forgiveness and mercy is also part of Islam. Also, flogging for wrong reasons, in a wrong way to wrong people is a WRONG act for which we can stand and IK can stand proudly. Please don't try to say that flogging is the only solution in all cases.
Now tell me how could you flog anybody just for going out of their house. That's a wrong version of Islam we don't agree with. Now please don't try to mix this with the BS that we don't know the whole story. Taliban's spokesman claimed it yesterday that they would have stoned that woman but they decided to flog her instead.
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| By Saleem @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:29 AM | (Creative) |
I think we as Mulims believe in Quran and its all punsihemnts
The ONLY issue is that that procedure followed by Taliban was un islamic as Dr Alvi rightly wrote
Taliban lack knowledge of Islam and wisdom to understand the
totality n bigger picture Islam presented -
Haris please dont mess the whole argument we are not against Islam and sharia
ONLY our response a orgainsation to those who are defacing Shria and Islam is very weak which is helping them to gain time and get strengthed - which can evantually result in mess in short time ( God Forbid) |
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| By Haris @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:54 AM | (InsaafPasand) |
@i.a.sara:
I 100% oppose suicide bombings, and slaughtering with knives like animals, destroying schools, forcing women not to go to school or not to have an ID card.
Extremism is not of just 1 kind. On one end of the spectrum are the extremists, like Taliban who are blowing bombs. They want to enforce their idealogy on others. Then there are the moderates in the middle, and then there is another end of the spectrum where there are extremists who will try anything to change Islam, like saying praying 5 times a day is not Islamic, beard is wrong, and yes, Islamic punishments are barbaric.
I oppose Extremism, but I cannot just be fair if I oppose just 1 kind. I must oppose extremism of both kinds.
Allow me to help you understand my point of view once again. Please assume I am a Christian when you read the following and perhaps you will understand my view:
I know for a fact that Quran prescribes flogging. Now, I may follow the Bible, and believe it is wrong to flog someone, or religiously judge someone of any crime. However, if I am sitting in an exam and the question is: 'Is flogging an Islamic punishment?'... I will have to answer 'Yes' to that question. If the examiner fails me for saying that, I will have no choice but to challange his marking of my paper, and give references from Quran and Hadith to prove that my answer was correct.
This is the kind of situation we are in. I consider myself religiously moderate, but I'm afraid right now most people are actiing like that examiner.
Isn't being honest part of being a PTI member as well? Do we have to be Muslims to see facts? Can't a Christian see the fact that Quran prescribes flogging, but everyone is saying it is unislamic?
If you can explain how you are solving that contradiction, then please enlighten me. I will gladly accept your point of view. As for me, I honestly do not understand why people are saying it is unislamic when it is clearly written in their book. |
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| By Haris @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:05 AM | (InsaafPasand) |
@i.a.sara:
I agree with you 100% on most of what you said. I don't live in Pakistan and am afraid a bit out of touch with the latest news etc, so you guys may have more facts about it than I do.
If the woman and the man did not commit any crime as per Islam, then ofcourse, it is incorrect to implement such punishments. But you said it would be BS to say that we may not know all the facts. That's the only thing I disagree with. I think people were condemning this flogging even before any facts were known.
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| By Haris @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:33 AM | (InsaafPasand) |
@i.a.sara:
About forgiveness: Yes, Islam teaches that, but that is between the rights of muslims between each other. Where 1 side can forgive the other. Also, while we can wish for more forgiving verdict, we cannot protest IF justice is delivered. But if the they were accused wrongly, then obviously, the punishers should be punished.
BTW, I was just reading the news from Jang... It seems it is still not 100% that the video is fake or not, and if this flogging even took place. So, in retrospect, I still think Imran Khan was absolutely right in not condemning Taliban as much as people here wanted him to; and once again, his 'door-andeshi' proved to be correct. Otherwise, he would now have had to worry about taking his statements back, or even give apologetic statements.
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| By asif238 @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 12:07 PM | (asif238) |
@i.a.sara
Our rulers have not yet learned, they did allow Pakistani teeritory to be abused yesterday & they are doing it today as well.
They did allowed taliban yesterday & they are allowing it today to USA.
Both of them killing Pakistanis & abusing our territory with the permission of our rulers.
Raise your voice against both of them, taliban & taliban-producers, in the same breath. |
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| By Dr Arif Alvi @
Sunday, April 05, 2009 3:20 PM | (arifalvi) |
Dear Friends,
I have tried to respond to a lot of comments on a different blog post titled Swat Flogging and PTI Stand. |
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Monday, April 06, 2009 12:20 AM | (Anonymous) | |
| By alisha @
Monday, April 06, 2009 9:37 AM | (alisha ali) | |
@tahir,you meantioned an incident where a girl has been killed coz of adultry in prophet times in madinah,can you provide me the reference for that,or its jus another story,im waiting,but wateveru say if its true and not a story dan i totally agree with your comments about swat. |
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| By Liaqat Ali @
Monday, April 06, 2009 8:16 PM | (LIAQAT ALI) |
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Dr Arif Alvi ,
It would have been more apropriate to respond on your party's web site , after all , you are the chosen sec gen of PTI .
Secondly , why has Imran Khan never taken part /lead in any discussion on his own party's website .
@ Hafsa
It is a grave situation , because , in the name of Islam a young girl , a 16/17 yrs old , has been publicly brutalised not only physically , but emotionly and mentaly . her whole life has been destroyed . The scars of this inhuman treatment will prevent her to have a respectable and normal future. A God given right has been taken away fron her .
The society has failed in its duty of care , towards a minor , a growing teenager , not yet elligible to vote because of her young age . The Talibaan and their supporters have defamed humanity in violating a defenceless little girl .
@ asif238
plz try and understand . It is a common practise to stick to the issue under discussion. It is a grave issue of denial to respectable life and denial of natural justice to the weakist and most vulnerable in our society .
I imagine her as my daughter being cruely savaged by pre historic pagans .
And I am ashamed that a lot of PTI members feel little or no sympathy to the victim ,and are barracking for the cruel .
This does not mean that PTI members have no knowledge of recent history of our country and region . May be ! most are on the page as you are .
@ All
Continue the rage .....Your daughters ,little sisters could be the next .
Liaqat Ali
Sydney.
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Monday, April 06, 2009 9:45 PM | (Anonymous) | |
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